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[edit] Soundtrack/Compilations - or the Whole Various Artists Bit

From my UserTalk page:
Hey, I noticed you posted something about soundtracks on Kiefer's talk page (through the Recent Changes). This is an exact quote from Kiefer that he left on my talk page.

"In the past, I've told others that in regards to soundtracks (although normally I'm talking about regular movie soundtracks like Moulin Rouge) to leave off the Artist designation and use only the Album format. ("Big Movie Soundtrack (2002)" instead of "Various Artists:Big Movie Soundtrack (2002)")".

Hope this helps you. I think the Compilation thing is a great idea, as a "NOW!" CD is a different style than a soundtrack specifically for a movie. (And yes, I'm also another person addicted to this site. -- Khluvr621 14:16, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, there you are...and in my own words, too! You can certainly add Category:Compilation as well...that is a great idea to help differentiate between those pesky various artist albums. If there is a large series of compilations, such as "NOW!" then a central page (like an Artist page) can be created to list the albums for easier reference. I'd still leave off the Various Artist bit and just go for the "NOW! 22 (2005)" (or however they are titled) designation for the namepage. Glad to hear that you are both addicted to LyricWiki, BTW! --Kiefer Esperanza Talk! 20:58, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

My response:
If I do as you suggest ("Big Movie Soundtrack (2002)" instead of "Various Artists:Big Movie Soundtrack (2002)"), I remove the artist line in the Album(or Song) Header/Footer and it shows garbage like {{1}} or something. I don't want to even show wiki reference to 'Various Artists' on the Album or Song pages (obviously plain text would be fine). Check Honeymoon_In_Vegas_(Original_Soundtrack)_(1992) and Billy_Joel:All_Shook_Up to see what I mean. --JeffASaul 08:23, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

True enough. New templates would have to be created or the original templates adapted. (The templates could also be left off and the link to the album hard-wired onto song pages, of course.) As an example, I've built a VariousArtistAlbum template (which I've used on your example Honeymoon In Vegas (Original Soundtrack) (1992)), and a similar change could be done for songs. It would be nice if the templates could be adjusted so that if Various Artists or some such similar thing were put in place of the artist section the change would automatically be made. I'm not a template builder, though, so I'd have to put that into better hands than myself. --Kiefer 01:40, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

That looks good, simple and should work, Thanks. Maybe you can make it automatically assign Category=Compilation as well, since any Various Artists album really is a Compilation. At any rate, this should be helpful to anyone addressing these types of albums! Also, thanks for the tweak to the footer as well, that makes sense. I guess for the individual song pages, I will just 'hard-wire' the album info, that's not really a big deal. Thanks again! --JeffASaul 07:42, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Next/Previous song links?

Take a look at this: [[1]]. That's the first song on its album, and I added a link at the bottom for next song, so if you want to sing along to a whole album you can just click right along as you finish a song. It took a few minutes and was quite annoying, but if you all think it's a nice idea maybe there's an easier way to do it. If you don't like it, feel free to take it out. Noodlepaste 20:00, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Hmm, that is a nice idea... There's got to be a way to do that in a more automated way (more automated than a bot even... maybe an extension for like <next_song> which could be inserted in the {{SongFooter}} which would look at the wikitext of the artist page to find the next song in the track-listings where the current page appears... On second thought, that might be a lot of additional overhead to lookup the wikitext for the artist page every time a song is shown. Do any coders have thoughts on this?

-Sean Colombo 01:37, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I wouldn't put it in the {{SongFooter}} as a song can potentially be on more than one album, and if we are going to have links like this, it should be done for every album (we can probably safely ignore singles as they usually have only a handful of songs).

As to automated implementations, using an extension would add at least one additional page lookup and possibly more, depending on how it is implemented (artist page scan, what links here, search, etc.). More lookups, more stress on the database server.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 02:31, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I went and made a tempalate {{Navigate}} and applied it to the first two pages of the album Bear Vs. Shark:Terrorhawk (2005) linked to in the first post.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 02:51, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I too have tinkered with such links. My solution is shown in Pain_Of_Salvation:Imago, this however is an example of a more complex album structure (chapters etc). I think no matter which way you go, an extra lookup is required, but I don't think it will be a drastic increase in load. I haven't looked into the workings of MediaWiki in this area, but I imagine every time a template is included, it requires an extra lookup and rendering of wiki text. Every link must be checked to see if it exists, etc. There is already a fair bit going on, this wont add much, but still we must be somewhat cautious, we don't want the straw that breaks the camels back.

There are two solutions that come immediately to mind (rushed ideas sorry, about to leave for a few days)

1. add a new tag, that when rendered, looks up the album page, and renders an appropriate linked output (whether a forward/backward link, or showing the entire album). The lookup in this instance could be stored as a session variable, so the lookup would only have to be made once (per user & per day etc.)
2. Add a {{:Artist_Name:Album_Name_(Year)/Template}} to each song page (or have it automatically included). If the page doesn't exist, one will automatically be generated from [[Artist_Name:Album_Name_(Year)]]. This allows the default to be overridden in complex cases. This would be included like a normal template, being governed by mediawikis normal procedures for caching pages.

I'm not 100% sure of the feasibility of the second option (regarding convincing mediawiki that the page exists when it doesn't in the database), but would otherwise be an easier (and safer) option (by not requiring new methods for caching as session variables etc.)

Hope this helps --TrevorP 09:43, 29 March 2007 (EDT).

[edit] Now CDs

I need some help putting the now CDs onto LyricWiki. If anyone has some time, go over to wikipedia's pages for the now cds. I already completed putting on Now 1 and 2. Thanks! --Adara1993 12:46, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

I created NOW! as an Artist Page. All NOW! albums should be located here. Since there are so many, this page will just list the albums and link to the individual Album Pages for the Songs. Thanks

to User:Adara1993 for posting the first two albums.--Jeff 10:35, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

had to edit; got my answer looking later on -- I filled #3 in; but if you wish, can stick an overview in there. -- Khluvr621 13:15, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Since NOW! is equivalent to the Artist page, please make sure that when you are creating an Album page, to have the link back to [[NOW!]]. If you add one from a different country, please make sure to create a section for that country and include (Country Series) after the year.--Jeff 23:27, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

Can we not just leave compilation albums where they belong? In the bin? 90.152.12.130 08:00, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Cast Albums/Soundtracks

I saw the note above about soundtracks; what about cast albums? Most commonly, you're likely to see "Original Broadway Cast," "Original Off-Broadway Cast," "Broadway Revival Cast," and "Original London Cast," but there are exceptions, and if you don't know which one you're looking for, you might not find the right album. Further, while various incarnations of a show usually have the same lyrics, there are certainly exceptions (Godspell being a notable example, with major lyric changes for the 2000/2001 revivals). --DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 16:12, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

I think the same logic would apply. File the album name without the Artist (see Honeymoon In Vegas (Original Soundtrack) (1992). You could create a category for the Cast choices above. If more than one album uses the same lyrics for any given song, just make sure the SongPage references both albums.--Jeff 09:49, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I recently ran into a situation like this. When I rip cast recording cd's they're automatically tagged with information from cddb. My music player uses that information to search lyricwiki and automatically download the lyrics to whatever song I'm listening to. But with cast recordings there are very often incompatibilities between how cddb has it tagged and how lyricwiki does it. Is there some way to have it tagged the way outlined above but still be recognized by amarok?--User:reldruh

My inclination was to file musicals (cast albums) under the composer - Andrew Lloyd Webber for Phantom of the Opera, Claude Michel and Alain.. for Les Mis, Stephen Schwartz for Wicked and Godspell; and then within the artist list, include different variations of the show - Stephen Schwartz would get Godspell (Original Broadway Cast), Godspell (2000 Revival Cast), etc. Also, shouldn't these albums be filed under "Musical"? 129.68.42.244 10:13, 1 May 2007 (EDT)User:kellygrape

[edit] New Templates?

For what? Example (I'm sorry! I get confused when I read the Recent Changes) -- Khluvr621 15:15, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I don't know. I'm going to go ask the creator about them.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 17:09, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Album Categories

Wouldn't it be wise to automatically categorize albums based on fLetter in the {{album}} template? This is already done for individual songs in the {{SongFooter}} template.
- Slate 00:35, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

I believe that the only thing {{Album}} does with the fLetter parameter is categorize the album. If it is not doing this and you have an example, please let us know.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 00:39, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Apparently my eyes deceived me. It already does what I asked. Thanks for pointing that out.

- Slate 01:01, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Instrumentals

Currently, here is no set standard for song titles for instrumental songs. Many use the song-name (Instrumental) format. I believe the (Instrumental) should be taken out, unless the song is actually titled as such by the artist. Most instrumentals should just be the song title, with an {{instrumental}} tag on its page. What are your feelings on this?
- Slate 01:23, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

There actually is a standard for instrumental songs and several other instances, like featured artists. As stated on LW:PN, notations such as feat. and (instrumental) should not be included in the title, but placed after the link (on artist and album pages) and that the page title should not include these. The {{Instrumental}} should be used on the song page insead of using, for example, <lyric>Instrumental</lyric> or some variation.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 01:53, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Since {{Song}} supports only 1 album...

As we all know, {{Song}} only supports 1 album. What about another template, {{SongAlso}}, which basically does the same thing. So, in the case of a song having multiple appearances on various albums, you can first have a {{Song}} then as many {{SongAlso}}s as necessary.

{{SongAlso}}:

{{#if:{{{1|}}}|This song also appears on the album "'''[[{{{2}}}:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]]'''" by '''{{#if:{{{3|}}}|[[{{{3}}}]]|[[{{{2}}}]]}}'''.|by '''{{#if:{{{3|}}}|[[{{{3}}}]]|[[{{{2}}}]]}}'''.}}

Feedback?

Slate 20:55, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Right now I tend to just throw {{Song}} in there multiple times (example). It seems to work just fine, except the grammar might be more correct if we used SongAlso. As far as semantic-coding (for the SOAP, etc.) it's a little bit easier to use just the one template (but it's not a necessity or anything). Does anyone else have any ideas about one template vs. two?

-Sean Colombo 01:34, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Template:Official_Lyrics

Since no one has yet responded to the talk page, I thought I would bring my concerns here. This template appears to put a LyricWiki stamp of approval on a set of lyrics, and kills any further comment/improvement/edits. This is completely against the point of having a wiki. As the notice below the edit box states: Please note that all contributions to LyricWiki may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then don't submit it here. The template just has the smell of an editor marking territory, whether that is the case or not.

Also, if someone does come in and change it, then the template no longer is true...the lyrics are no longer the same as those official ones on the artist's website. The only way to stop that is to make the page protected, which should only be done in special circumstances, and (once again) goes against the point of having a wiki.

Finally, as we all know, official lyrics can be quite different from those actually recorded. I can't count the number of songs that I've run across with lyrics different than those in liner notes or song books or whatever. I've always been of the mindset that we are trying to have the lyrics match the recorded version.

I think that a notation about the location of the official lyrics should be placed below the lyrics in the external links area. This way the official lyrics are still linked to and available for those who are interested, but the appearance of a LyricWiki stamp of "Official-ness" isn't placed on the LyricWiki page itself, and can still be viewed as editable.

--Kiefer 12:47, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Just a heads up first; I wasn't trying to mark territory in any way, so I apologize if it seems that way. I only question the purpose and usefulness of a wiki as much as you do. In response to this: "I've always been of the mindset that we are trying to have the lyrics match the recorded version." I agree with that as much as I disagree. Having the correct lyrics is the mindset I am under. However, as you stated, there are often times 2 correct versions of the lyrics: the official and the ones actually sung (sang?). I think that is where this issue comes to light. I know that in my personal experience, I've wanted to know both versions of the lyrics. Obviously, having a {{Official_Lyrics}} would only show 1 version. The same goes for having the "what you hear" version of the lyrics. I have two possible solutions for these issues. One is based on expanding {{Official_Lyrics}}; the other is based on changing {{Official_Lyrics}}.

What about having 2 blocks of lyrics. I think that from within the {{Official_Lyrics}}, 2 anchors can be added. One to the "==Official Lyrics==" and one to the "==Lyrics==". The "officials" can be on a sub-page, which would help separate the "editable" vs the official. This probably would be useful mostly for casual users who don't know much about wikis and editing them, thus preventing a casual user from changing the "official lyrics". You've already listed the negative implications of this template, so I'll go on to my next idea.

Another idea would be to change the template so that it looks/acts just like a {{Wikipedia}}; that is, a floating box on the right which is mainly a link to the official lyrics. This is similar to Kiefers suggestion, just a little more in depth. However, this could have two negative implications:

1. Users will be driven away from the site, preventing them from stumbling upon the rest of the site.
2. This would basically prevent/remove lyrics from the site, inhibiting growth (to a very small extent, if any)

Let me know what you think. Hopefully we can come to a consensus on this issue.

- Slate 18:22, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Although I'd like to see what other admins think, I think that a small, inconspicuous box underneath the Wiki floater would be acceptable. Stating something along the lines of "This artist has released official lyrics to this song. The recorded lyrics noted on this page may differ from this official version, however." ("official lyrics" could be made into the external link.)--Kiefer 22:45, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

I don't have any objections. Perhaps a banner is a little bit too conspicuous; I think that something small would be appropriate.

The other thing I thought of would be to have the official lyrics be the standard to have, and use notes (using a cite extension or similar) for the lyrics heard. This issue of alternate lyrics exists with some artist releasing several versions of the same song (remixes and such) that all have the same title and nearly identical lyrics.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 22:55, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

I think most people coming to the site want to know the lyrics to what's being said in the recording. What if they downloaded the song? What if they have the booklet, but it's incorrect? Personally, I'm inclined to have the lyrics on LyricWiki be what's heard in the song, then have a link somewhere on the page that links to the official lyrics, whether it be on the artist's site, LyricWiki, or wherever.

Also, along the same vein, what about a template for songs that have no official recording? An example is Damien_Rice:Sand. I put a notice at the top, but it would be nice to have a template for those rare songs that are only performed live.

- Caboose 23:48, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

When the official lyrics are already online on the artist's website, a link could be added in the SongFooter template together with the other external links. I think that it would be better than a box, even an inconspicuous one, because it would keep all external links in the same area.

Valhalla 06:19, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

(Yet to be answered on my talk as well, I decided to look around and I have found a similar topic. Yay. :))

Anyway, adding to what teknomunk said, there are actually songs released by artists that have the exact same title, but with slight alterations to the lyrics and released on separate albums.

However, since they have the exact title, creating one page creates a fixed link for all the other pages yet to be created :(. I would like to do something about it so that I can get back to creating those similar-yet-different pages.

-BryghtShadow 07:44, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

If there are only very slight changes, making a note below the original lyrics is a good way to go. (A second lyric section with the changed portion(s) would be a good addition, as well.) If there are major lyric changes, such as added verses, a changed chorus, etc., then creating a new page with a parenthetical description [EX: (Live), (Remix), (Extended), etc.) is perfectly wonderful. If you wanted, you could even create a link between such versions. --Kiefer 13:20, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

I think I'm beginning to get the idea. :) Thanks.

-BryghtShadow 13:49, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Search List Help

I need some help with Search. How can I get a complete list of articles/pages for a given Artist? For example, I did a search for Jimmy Buffett and got back a long list. However, this list is incomplete. I noticed this because FoxyTunes Planet (http://www.foxytunes.com/planet) (which uses LyricWiki) lists lyrics for songs that I don't see on the Search Results. An example of this is Jimmy Buffett:Kinja Rules. A complete list of just Page Titles would be useful to note duplicates where the Title is off by a character. Also, on a related note, if I do [[Category:Review_Me]], this is not complete either. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks --Jeff 16:27, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Try this: Special:Allpages/Jimmy_Buffett

-TrevorP 17:04, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

This is another way: [2] Special:Prefixindex

- teknomunk (talk,E) 17:47, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! I am sure I am not the only one who will benefit from this! You guys rock!

--Jeff 09:17, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] The ads are coming

[edit] Ad layout

There is now a page explaining our ads to the users... I moved this discussion over to the "LyricWiki:Ads" page's talk-page so that it doesn't take up the whole Community Portal :).
CONVERSATION MOVED TO LyricWiki_talk:Ads

[edit] New-Article Templates

I'm putting the finishing touches on New-Article Templates (about darned-frickin-tootin' time... dunno why I never did this before). Basically the extension detects what type of page it is (assuming the naming standards are followed) and if it is in the main namespace (don't want templates on LyricWiki, MediaWiki, Help, etc. pages) and fills the text-box with most of the informationz.
Thought I'd give a heads up so that ppl could check it out.
Let me know what you think,
-Sean Colombo 23:59, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

Sounds cool, can't wait to see it in action.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 00:14, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

The templates are now live, they will automatically show up, but can be overridden in the extremely-rare case that the default would be wrong. If people don't like the new header above new articles, you can change the way it appears on MediaWiki:Newarticletext.

-Sean Colombo 01:52, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

MediaWiki:Newarticletext requires that you are an administrator for edits. Please put drafts on MediaWiki_talk:Newarticletext for review.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 02:01, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

This should save loads of time for new pages. Great job! --WillMak050389 02:41, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] MusicBrainz Redux

Greetings, I have just found this wiki. I have recently finished tagging my music collection with MusicBrainz and I was investigating how to pull down lyrics for songs that have been correctly identified. Unfortunetly there doesn't appear to be any connectivity work done from MusicBrainz to lyrics which is how I ended up here. Now before I get stuck in here I'm merely in an investigative phase of a personal project and maybe LyricWiki isn't the place for me my following discourse is speculative. I would though be interested in feedback.

So after spending part of today browsing your site I have noticed that there is some MusicBrainz information here and there but it doesn't appear to be standardised or searchable. The main piece for information that would be great is the MusicBrainz ID. This is a unique ID that has been assigned to each song. What would be great is if you had this ID for a song a request could be sent to this site and the lyrics for that song is returned, sounds simple but in implementation it could be harder. One of the big ones is that songs are connected to albums and albums are connected to artists. At the moment the musicBrainz ID for artists appear to be added to the Lyricswiki pages, Cool (but not searchable). Things start to get funny when moving to albums. Artists tend to have multiple releases for the same album, usually in different markets. Check out these two links Blur - Parklife 1 and Blur - Parklife 2 they are the same album. These each have a unique MB ID and as a result the parallel songs in each album have unique MBID's see so the track Blur:This_Is_A_Low has two MBIDs 76f49504-0b54-4e31-908f-070e5916fa62 and a952484f-55dd-4952-a1f1-939f49eb24fa.

So if LyricWiki was interested in connecting through to MusicBrainz how would, should MBIDs be added to pages so that they would be searchable. I have been looking at MusicBrainz for the last few weeks and I working on how to create a bot that might back connect LyricWiki to MusicBrainz. (This is part of other work I have been doing but it may be able to redeploy if there is interest).

Any way I have rummaged around this site a bit and didn't find much discussion on how MusicBrainz should be used, maybe I didn't dig deep enough, all I could find was section 4 on this page Community Portal 2007 January 14 - 2007 March 9 so if there is a discussion I missed I'm sorry. Apart from that I would be interested in other people feedback. Cheers! Douglas.kastle 04:14, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

First off, welcome to LyricWiki! :)

As for MusicBrainz, it sounds like if you could create a spider to scrape MBIDs, then a wiki-bot to insert them into LyricWiki pages (we could create appropriate fields in {{artist}}, {{SongFooter}}, etc.) that would be pretty awesome. After that point we could make it searchable. If no other way than just through the API. If you get the MBIDs scraped, let us know and a bunch of us here can help on the other side of it.

Shweet idea :)

-Sean Colombo 03:28, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

Just a note about MusicBrainz future that could interest you: a current work is TrackMerging that would allow to share the same MBIDs for identical tracks through different releases.

[edit] Big Page Again

I was reading in the archives regarding Big Page and found the Rolling Stones page. I have attempted to do this with Jimmy Buffett, but I took it further and wanted to see your opinion. The Rolling Stones page is really four sub pages, each having all songs for Albums on that subpage. For Jimmy Buffett, I segment into decade, but all on one page, and there is no direct list of songs on the Artist Page. The songs are listed under each Album page. I did this because I feel it is extremely redundant to have the songs links by Album on the Artist page and also have then on the Album page. Not to mention, Jimmy Buffett has 8 Live Albums and at least with previously released material (i.e. Greatest Hits), so I thought it would be cumbersome to have Jimmy Buffett:Margaritaville listed 9 different times on the Artist page (In truth there are 3 versions; Original, Live, and Live Extended). I also began uploading all of the Album Artwork and have reserved placeholders for them on the Artist page. --Jeff 12:19, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Synchronized lyrics

Has there been discussion regarding synchronized lyrics? There are plugins for just about every major media player, so I assume there is some sort of standard format to them... It might get confusing since you have both studio and live versions of songs - they each might have different words at different times in the recording.

Speaking of studio-vs-live tracks - how does LyricWiki handle it? Do you assume that all recordings of a particular track contain identical lyrics? Is it infrequent enough to not be a concern, or should there be some consideration to putting multiple lyrics for a track? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.181.92.2 (talk) .

A while ago I saw a few people adding .lrc files and using Template:Lrc.

LRC file

from Jill Scott:A Long Walk

There are only 6 songs currently that have timed lyrics, but you are more than welcome to add more.

As to studio and live tracks, it is feasable to add multiple lrc templates at the bottom of the track for the different versions of the song. For example:

{{lrc|Jill_Scott_-_A_Long_Walk_(Who_Is_Jill_Scott).lrc|Studio Version}} {{lrc|Jill_Scott_-_A_Long_Walk_(Who_Is_Jill_Scott) (Live).lrc|Live}} {{lrc|Jill_Scott_-_A_Long_Walk_(Who_Is_Jill_Scott) (Random Remix Version).lrc|Random Remix Version}}

Studio Version

Live

Random Remix Version

and so on. A plugin would just extract the correct link from the song page. Of course this is not set in stone, so any suggestions you may have are very welcome.

- Teknomunk 13:04, 13 October 2006 (PDT)

- That is great news! Thanks for responding to this. I recommend that this feature be promoted somehow - perhaps as an official announcement along with highlighting it on the main page. This is a feature that could really set this site apart from other similar offerings. I can't think of any other site that is wiki-based plus offers timed lyrics. Also, if the current content was culled by a crawler bot, perhaps lrc files could be harvested the same way? Now we just need someone smarter than me to work on plugins...  :-)

I created Category:Timed lyrics so maybe we can keep track of them. We need a good resource for this kind of thing.... although, it'd be easier just to have have pages for timed lyrics instead of just .lrc files. Gren 09:36, 23 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Disorganized Mess

I looked at the Hole page and noticed how pointless it is that every album have it's seperate page if it's all contained on the main page. You should either put all the song listings on the band name and not have album pages, or have album pages, but no list on the band names, just album links --Cjohnson 08:13, 25 January 2007 (EST)

The reasoning here is that when you look for an artist, you probably want to see all of their track listings easily (without having to link out to an album page), but at the same time, there are many albums (ex: Pink Floyd:The Dark Side Of The Moon (1973)) that have special history or other additional information that people might find interesting, but wouldn't want right on the main artist page cluttering up their view of the track-list.

-Sean Colombo 09:10, 25 January 2007 (EST)

This means any changes I make to the artist page, would also have to be changed on the album page. Why not try templates then? --Cjohnson 21:05, 25 January 2007 (EST)

This topic seams to be comming up a lot recently. We won't be getting rid of the album pages because of the reasons that Sean mentioned, history, awards, Album Of The Week. Transclusion of album pages is a much more attractive solution to this problem. Updates to the tracklist are made in a single plage, compilations can be listed on multiple artist pages, and makes the artist page a lot cleaner.

Both myself and Ipso have played around with using templates to transclude album pages onto the artist page. I have a set of functional, but incomplete and somewhat akward, templates (1,2,3). I tested these templates on Ayumi Hamasaki, Utada Hikaru, and couple other artists to test it out. This could work rather well, but the templates requires that you know how to use the template, so I haven't brought them up yet.

It should be noted that using templates to include album pages puts additional stress on the database as it has to lookup all the album pages that will be shown.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 22:20, 25 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] PUID, song length, Track Gain...

It would be easier to associate lyrics with a particular track if there was more then just an Artist and Track. For example, using the MusicBrainz and MusicIP PUID you could begin to associate lyrics more easily with the correct tracks. Add track length and track gain (search replaygain) and you should be able to uniquely identify tracks to associate lyrics with. Even more important for timestamped lyrics and to avoid problems with live versions, ect...

As long as you are try license lyrics why not try and license album art at the same time? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.223.179.238 (talk) .

[edit] Great!

Hi i really like your site! 24.229.120.27 11:46, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Help Editing/Correcting Lyrics

Hi, I'm new at LyrickWicki but I wrote a lot in Wikipedia. As a portuguese I tried to help with accented lyrics. I changed one but I couldn't remove the banner that says those lyrics had to be changed. Even in the help section, I couldn't find it. How can I remove that banner? Or can't I remove it, and wait for an administrator finds it's not usefull anymore? On the other hand I uploaded a CD cover and I couldn't change it, but today I found it's on the right place. Thank you --Ludovico 09:20, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

The banner is created by {{Accent}}, removing this line will get rid of it.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 09:47, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

As for the picture...If you used the "Upload cover" link under a "No cover available" picture (as on In Extremo:Kein Blick Zurück (2006)), then you should hit the "Purge page" link to refresh the page. If you would like to hardwire a picture on an Album page, then use (or add, if its missing) the |Cover= parameter with the name of the picture file that you uploaded to the {{Album}} template at the top of the page.

Also, on the Artist's page, you can use the {{Album Art|picturename.jpg}} below the album's header to add the picture there. If you do, it is good to add <div style="clear:both;"></div> below the listing of the album's songs to space out the albums correctly. Hope this helps. --Kiefer 13:17, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

Thank you. I'm gonna start cleaning accented characters and loading a few CD covers. --Ludovico 13:38, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Re-Introduce Myself

Hello All! I just wanted to let you know that Sean has graciously asked me to be an Admin. I accept this responsibility with great honor. As such, I also have joined Esperanza in order to help the community as well.

So for the users, I will do what I can to help you.

To the Admins, while looking around, I saw on the Request For Move page that there is a special script for bulk moves. How do I find that and use it as well as any other new things I should be aware of. I look forward to helping out!

Side-Note 1 How do I customize my sig to include as below without doing it manually?

Side-Note 2 I updated my preferences to include my email, however I still have not received the confirmation email to enable my addy. Does anyone know why? Thanks!

--Jeff 14:41, 6 May 2007 (EDT)(talk,contrib,E)

In the special pages menu, at the bottom, there are links for admin special pages ("Restricted special pages"). Bulk move is found at Special:Batchmove.
For your sig, go into your preferences, on the first tab there is a box for nickname, put in the code you want to show up as your sig and make sure "raw signatures" is checked.
Also, your email may detect the confirmation email as spam, check your junk file or change your junk filter and try to send the confirmation email again. Hope this helps! --WillMak050389 16:19, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Strange thing, if I put in my gmail addy, then I receive the confirmation email. If I put in my wiki@jeffasaul.com, which is a free AOL address. I don't receive the email, even with SPaM turned off. I do receive other emails so I know its not the address. Any Clue anybody? --Jeff (talk,contrib,E) 18:18, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Welcome, fellow admin! Your various projects have certainly shown your dedication and care with regards to LyricWiki and it's great to have you aboard. It's even greater to not be the n00b admin anymore! :-p I had to try a couple of times to get my e-mail confirmation as well, by the way. I hope you're enjoying the new tools, though! ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 20:22, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] fLetter - Assistance is much appreciated.

Hello. I've been recently fixing fLetters (in song footers) where I could. But I've noted the there were quite a lot of fLetter=Symbol used for songs without any symbol songtitles (even English ones) where the first letter of the title is quite obvious.

Now I, at the moment, have got a few possible explanations that one might give and they are:

• I'm not 100% sure about what letter the title begins with;
• (For Japanese titles) I'm not sure what the Romaji title is, hence not knowing what the first letter is;
• Ah, I'll leave that for someone else to do it or for later;
• I haven't enough time to do it (rushing).

So far I've tried my best to look through the list of fLetter=Symbols (and have also gone off the path a couple of times i.e. did extra), but I began to wonder:

• Could a bot (or another human) also help me out in this task? I might be asking for too much, but I just thought that songs that began with letters of the alphabet might be a good start (and I believe that it would be much easier than foreign characters such as Japanese);
• Also, could this need for inserting the correct fLetter be slightly emphasised?

Hmmm, in the meantime, I'll get back to some more fixing... (it'd be much easier if I could choose subcategories (such as languages) within Category:Songs_Symbol)

Bleah, I'm complaning too much... :P - BryghtShadow 06:57, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

p.s. I just realised that quite a few of them were my own doing :P - BryghtShadow 07:44, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

p.s. Another thing I suspect. Have Bots and templates got something to do with this minor error? Hmmm... *pondering* - BryghtShadow 07:51, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

The new Auto templates place Symbol in automatically as the fLetter. Most newbies don't appear to change it. So, thank you, everyone who is helping clear out some Symbol junk! ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 09:33, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I see. ...but something that still bugs me is that some pages (not entirely sure due not checking every self-edited pages' history) which had smallcaps titles were Bot generated... Could you check on that when you have the chance? Thanks (I think I'm posting under the wrong place, but my mind is too tired to think right now =.= I need some sleep) - BryghtShadow 07:30, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Category:Artists

I think should exist only this Category. Now it's too difficult to see an artist because we never know if he's listed in this category or in the sub-category artistname_first character. If I want to find John Lee Hooker, for me, it's wrong to go to category:artists_h, subcategory character J. It's too confusing. --Ludovico 05:32, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

I agree to 'only one Category' and that is: the main one, period.

However, having said that quite confidently I've got one question in regards to this topic (I'm not sure if this has been mentioned and/or discussed somewhere else so I'll ask again): fLetter-formatting Japanese artists with Surname_Firstname format, it was the fLetter of their Firstname, right? Or was it the fLetter of the first name (which is usually the Surname) that they use?

Argh, I'm now confused x_x - BryghtShadow 07:19, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

We just have to make a rule and follow it. If everybody follows the same rule, even if it's different in their own country (remember this is Internet, we are working for all world) it will be easier to find what we are looking for or inserting new pages or correcting the old ones. I will use only the main Category for Artists, Albuns and Songs, until an administrator tells me not to do it. --Ludovico 07:36, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

If you go to Category:Artists and look at the ones listed under just plain-old Artist, they have the {{Artist}} template, but no fLetter specified. (Sometimes they will have the specific Category:Letter spelled out, however.) This is in error with our current standards. They should all be placed in their specific alphabetic category by adding fLetter to the Artist template. This is an update that should be continually worked on as the Wiki improves. Any help that anyone can give with this is appreciated.

As for Japanese artists, you may want to look through Teknomunk's contributions to see what he's done with regards to fLetter, as he's the architect of the Japanese-related formatting on the site.

----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 12:02, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Ok, thanks. This has helped. :) - BryghtShadow 04:48, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] LW Policy: Lyrics

Hey guys I see that there aren't many policies at the moment, and the most important is the one related to Lyrics. The reason I find this important is because 1)this is a lyric wiki and 2)there are many styles of denoting lyrics.

First of all, LW already uses the lyric tag to display it in a certain manner, so that should be in the policy.

Secondly, things like the first word of every line being capitalized and the end of every line not having a period could be things to add, however these are of course debatable additions.

Additionally, the thing that makes the most difference to me is denoting what words are in the song versus the actual lyrics. Not following? I'm talking about pages that list each stanza only once, even if they are used many times. When I look for lyrics, I prefer the entire song to be listed. I don't want to have to scroll up and down to find my place, I want to know what comes next. When I'm singing, I want to know if one stanza has a minor difference (i.e. a different word or an additional word).

See where I'm going with this? I find it important, do you? (Btw, I'm a registered user, just not logged in) --70.89.126.81 19:11, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

The only item not found on the Help:FS page is the part about having all the words of a song listed, without chorus notations, etc. whenever possible and whenever it wouldn't be rediculously repetitive. (Usually at the end of the song, such as Journey's Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin' which na-na's for a minute or so.) I guess that point perhaps needs some clarifying, so I'll add a bit to that page. Thanks. ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 23:27, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

There should be a policy page linking to that if it's a standard. --Notmyhandle 00:21, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

It is my understanding that policy pages aren't for listing the formatting standards for the site, as that is what the Help pages are for. Policy pages should deal with community standards of behavior, situations that site administrators would have to react to, and disciplinary actions that might take place. (Usually all rolled up into one, such as with site vandalism.) ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 08:19, 10 May 2007 (EDT)