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LyricWiki talk:Esperanza
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Barnstar/Award?
Should we have an award similar to a barnstar for great contributions to this wiki? Just a thought... --WillMak050389 16:40, 11 December 2006 (EST)
- Welcome to Esperanza! Yes, I will take that thought as a base for a "Barnstar Brigade" (BB)! ~~•Sean•gorter• 06:13, 12 December 2006 (EST)
I have the code for award. Here:
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};" |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:(The name of the barnstar).png|50px]] |rowspan="2" | |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The (Kind of Barnstar You Are Awarding) Barnstar''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | {{{1}}} |}
How is it? Try it out! ~~•Sean•gorter• 06:19, 14 December 2006 (EST)
- And please copy the code while you are in edit mode! ~~•Sean•gorter• 06:19, 14 December 2006 (EST)
A list of the templates made awarding the barnstars:
- Template:The Original Barnstar
- Template:The Editor's Barnstar
- Template:The Barnstar of Diligence
- Template:The Barnstar of Good Humour
- The one I deserve is: Template:The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
- Template:The WikiDefender Barnstar
- Template:The Tireless Contributor's Barnstar
- Template:The DaVinci Barnstar
- Template:The Rosetta Barnstar
- Template:The Minor Barnstar
- Template:The Random Acts of Kindess Barnstar
- Template:The Surreal Barnstar
Here is the list. ~~•Sean•gorter• 06:27, 16 December 2006 (EST)
- Oops! Missed out one more barnstar: Template:The Working Man's Barnstar ~~•Sean•gorter• 22:40, 16 December 2006 (EST)
Front page
I don't mind trying to make a cool design for the front page. I think Sean Gorter should put the info up first though. I don't really understand what this project is all about actually. --Mischko 15:21, 17 December 2006 (EST)
- Haven't you read the front page? Esperanza's main goal is the success of LyricWiki. Anyway, the front page has already been updated. ~~•Sean•gorter• 06:19, 20 December 2006 (EST)
- Yeah I read it but there was so little content that I didn't really see what to redesign. But as you said, it's done already, and looks good. --Mischko 10:13, 20 December 2006 (EST)
- Might wanna start working on that front page now. I think it's a problem with the templates. ~~•Sean•gorter• 12:16, 25 December 2006 (EST)
- Never mind. The templates were having a problem, and I've fixed it already. ~~•Sean•gorter• 04:52, 27 December 2006 (EST)
- Might wanna start working on that front page now. I think it's a problem with the templates. ~~•Sean•gorter• 12:16, 25 December 2006 (EST)
- Yeah I read it but there was so little content that I didn't really see what to redesign. But as you said, it's done already, and looks good. --Mischko 10:13, 20 December 2006 (EST)
Thoughts
Promotion
When the site was loading slowly last week, we lost a decent amount of traffic... it might be a good excercise for Esperanza to try to get some of that traffic back. If you have a blog, maybe write about LyricWiki, possibly tell some friends, whatever. :) More traffic means more contributions and more people helping us patrol them, so... a better site!
SOAP Improvements
The success rate of the SOAP is going up a bit from everyone's work on Special:soapfailures and the tweaks in the code. On my front, I'll be rewriting the code a bit to make it have better results and hopefully run faster as well.
- I'm glad to hear that the SOAP effenciency is going up. One thing that would help immediatly would be to toss out requests without an artist specified immediatly, even before loading all the code and logging the failure. We cannot do anything for a request with no artist, so it is not even worth mentioning in Special:Soapfailures.
- - teknomunk (talk,E) 19:52, 6 January 2007 (EST)
- Good idea, I just put that in there now (basically). The reason I hadn't thrown them out before is because a song with messed up tags might actually have the song be in the format getSong("", "Artist:Song Name") (however unlikely since most people generally use hypens instead). I've made it so that if there is an artist and the song name doesn't contain a colon, it is automatically thrown out. If the colon thing proves to be useless, then we can just start chucking out all requests with no artist.
- -Sean Colombo 01:45, 8 January 2007 (EST)
The Future
As I've mentioned in the blog, the best long-term solution to the revenues-vs-server-fees problem is going to be having the server-fees paid for by LyricWiki's parent company. This is going to be accomplished by integrating with an upcoming service. The new site, called Pedlr will be released in late February with a quiet soft-launch ahead of time. I will let you all know when the soft-launch is ready & you can give some feedback :).
-Sean Colombo 19:38, 6 January 2007 (EST)
PS: On LyricWiki:Esperanza, the menu on the left is shown all the way below the content of the main block of the page for me in FireFox (1.5.0.9 WinXP)... anyone else have the same problem?
- You are not the only one seeing it. This happens with mismatched html tags. I went ahead and fixed it, it was missing a </div>. I don't know if it is in the 1.8 or 1.9 branch, but this problem has been fixed in MediaWiki.
- Anything I can do to help, I will do. Money-wise I am pretty much stuck, being in college, but if you need code, debugging, etc. feel free to ask.
- - teknomunk (talk,E) 19:52, 6 January 2007 (EST)
More thoughts
We only have 7 members out of 1,951 users. How else can we recruit more members? ~~•Sean•gorter• 03:53, 14 January 2007 (EST)
- We could make the existence of Esperanza more visible? We could also approach frequent editors and say something to the effect of "Hey, homie, why don't you join Esperanza?" Punching Kittens 00:10, 3 February 2007 (EST)
Let me Introduce Myself
Hello my name is Jeff and I have been a LW member for about 2 months. I have worked many large projects, including Jimmy Buffett, Bon Jovi and Billy Joel, it's not coincidence that those are my favorite artists. I have spent a lot of time making those pages better (just ask Kiefer what the Bon Jovi page was like before I got my little hands on it...) I joined Esperanza when I became an Admin. I found it from Kiefer's sig and on the Community Portal page, I figured it would be the natural progression.
That said, I still am not sure what the purpose is. I understand it is to make this a better community and that members will be helpful to editors so they will continue to edit. Well that is what I am doing as an Admin. What power does an E member have that Admin's don't? I would have thought that there were some sort of guidelines for me a new E member.
I noticed in the description page that it said:
- Esperanza has a variety of programs that are designed to help editors feel more appreciated, combat stress, and generally lend support to the hard-working people here who need it.
Are these the Barnstar awards? I see there is code for Barnstar awards, but has anyone ever received one? If they are there to reward people for effort, why have I not seen one? And what criteria is set up to receive one? Can they only be awarded by E members? Do only E members qualify to receive them? And also I am not sure I understand the text in the Stress Alerts page:
- Esperanza's Stress Alerts will alert any Esperanza Member of a user who contributes greatly to LyricWiki is planning to leave LyricWiki; and those who receive the alert may do anything to get that user back.
This seems to be an extreme measure. What do I do? Offer the user money? Block anyone else from editing his posts? Marry his daughter?
I know this sounds like a rant, but I am in full support of the community. If a user is not happy, then we should reach out to him and offer assistance. I am just not quite sure how we know they are not happy.
--Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 12:52, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
- I'm not exactly sure what the purpose of it is... we don't really do anything different than we normally do. This is the only 'group' so far on this site, though I have thought of starting one for Japanese. I don't know if there are enough people working on the Japanese section for that to be useful. Well, that is about all I can think of.
- - teknomunk (talk,E) 13:16, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
- The Barnstars can be awarded to anyone, Jeff. I have received one, too. What about Sean Colombo? I gave them to him. -Sean gorter- 03:56, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
- Thanks Sean, I actually gave teknomunk one the other day for his work on creating Japanese group. However, I still do not quite understand what makes E members different as stated above, what really is the point of being an Esperanza member? Understand, I am not saying this negatively. I think it is a great idea for active editors to be able form as a group and help each other try to bring and keep more productive editors. That is what a community is all about. But like I said above, that is already what the admins (myself included) do. Thanks.
- Thanks Sean, I actually gave teknomunk one the other day for his work on creating Japanese group. However, I still do not quite understand what makes E members different as stated above, what really is the point of being an Esperanza member? Understand, I am not saying this negatively. I think it is a great idea for active editors to be able form as a group and help each other try to bring and keep more productive editors. That is what a community is all about. But like I said above, that is already what the admins (myself included) do. Thanks.
--Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 10:15, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
Tour to LyricWiki
I am a member of Wikiversity and even if they are younger, they are quite experienced. I noticed that they had a "Tour Guide" around Wikiversity. I suppose we can do the same...? -Sean gorter- 06:02, 23 May 2007 (EDT)
Page ranking
I think that we need a rating system like on Wikipedia (Wikipedia:Good article criteria). There should be a clear idea about what the talk page of a song, album and artist is for. The Main Page, with the Discuss this week's album link for the album of the week section makes it look like people should right about how the album makes the feeeeel....?
Now I don't imagine that there's a lot we need to discuss about albums, artists and songs (the guidelines are clear), but the talk pages are all there, so we should use. Let's move the {{Split}} to the talk page. People don't see all the garbage about what needs doing on the incomplete Wikipedia pages: why should they see it here?
As far as the page ranks go, there are four categories, as I see it: Bot Made Junk, Some Human Has Touched It, Pretty Good, and Totally Freakin' Perfect. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 05:46, 31 January 2008 (EST)
- I had though about the page ranking thing already (but hadn't said anything and mainly in conjunction with Ali Project,Kotoko, aka. the excellent pages). If you have a list of templates you want moved to the associated talk pages, let me know. It may take a bit to write the bot, but it will go on my todo list and get done eventually (sooner if you keep poking me).
- ^_^ So true about those page ranks. (One of my pet projects, Kotoko, would fall in the last category ^_____^ )
- - teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 11:11, 31 January 2008 (EST)
- I think the main template in question is {{Split}}. I think the page ranking is very important to the growth of the community on LW. We're not like Wikipedia, where you could contribute to any page by just going to the library and getting a book on whatever. We have to go an get the music, listen to it and actively compare what's on the web with what we think we hear. The album and artist pages can be improved/made by looking on Amazon or whatever, but the lyrics (the bulk of our stuff) cannot easily be corrected. We should replace the
Category:Review mewith a talk page template that looks like this:
- I think the main template in question is {{Split}}. I think the page ranking is very important to the growth of the community on LW. We're not like Wikipedia, where you could contribute to any page by just going to the library and getting a book on whatever. We have to go an get the music, listen to it and actively compare what's on the web with what we think we hear. The album and artist pages can be improved/made by looking on Amazon or whatever, but the lyrics (the bulk of our stuff) cannot easily be corrected. We should replace the
This is a page made by computer retrieval. Please look over the page and replace this {{Bot Made}} with a {{Human Reviewed}}.- We should have separate templates for artist and album pages too; those can be worked on without listening, so people'll be more likely to help out. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 03:59, 1 February 2008 (EST)
- I totally agree with Aquatiki. People wouldn't be bothered to check the categories and are more likely to look in the talk page. Θ Sean gorter Θtalk|Esperanza 22:26, 1 February 2008 (EST)
- We should have separate templates for artist and album pages too; those can be worked on without listening, so people'll be more likely to help out. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 03:59, 1 February 2008 (EST)
Semantic MediaWiki
I would like to recommend an extension to our fair wiki: Semantic MediaWiki. This would basically gives us the ability to give pages attributes. For example, Audioslave:Audioslave (2002) could have values like
| release year | 2002 |
|---|---|
| album by | Audioslave |
| length | 62:47 |
| number of tracks | 14 |
| Genres | Hard Rock, Alternative |
This would greatly reduce the number of categories we have and make possible all kinds of searches. Read more at mediawiki. I propose it here on Esperanza because there would be some learning curve issues and bots-work needed. (I can make bots too now). I use this extension extensively on my own site and will put myself forward as something of an ontology expert. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 02:59, 1 March 2008 (EST)
- A very interesting idea. I somewhat knew of this extension already (as in I knew it existed, not what it did). What properties do you see us using here?
- - teknomunk (talk,E,歌,A) 03:29, 1 March 2008 (EST)
- Welllllll, we can define our own properties! What inspired this whole suggestion was browsing through Special:Categories and thinking about trying to clean it up. Just going in order, we could eliminate the first 6+5 categories with
[[Grammy winner in year::1234]]. Next, the whole "fLetter" business is one thing. Then all the "album released in"'s become one property. Not to mention all the genre's would become multiple attributions to one property and all the hometowns become one property. And on and on and on. --Aquatiki 03:41, 1 March 2008 (EST)- That was what I was looking for, a list. So...
- [[Grammy winner in year::1234]]
- [[First Letter::A]]
- [[Release Year::EMI]]
- [[Genre::Rock]]
- [[Label::EMI]]
- [[Language::Japanese]]
- [[Number Of Tracks::EMI]]
- [[Track Length::EMI]]
- [[Page Type::Album]]
- How do you think we should handle hometowns?
- [[Hometown::Japan]]
- [[Hometown::Japan/Hokkaido]]
- or some other way? Any other properties we should have?
- With something like this, the devil is always in the details, so it is best to get as much information out as early as possible so other people can look over it. From what I can tell, this will be an excellent way to streamline the categories here on LyricWiki.
- - teknomunk (talk,E,歌,A) 04:01, 1 March 2008 (EST)
- Beware of capitalizations (e.g. "Number of tracks"). Also note, "Genre" can have as many values as we want. "Page type" will not be necessary, there are only three types and the categories (Album, Artist, Song) do fine. As for "hometown", since you can have queries of queries, we'll just use [[Hometown::Hokkaido]] since "Hokkaido" will have the property [[Located in::Japan]]. Another thing, we'll be able to do more enforcement: "First letter" will only 'allow values's
A..Z. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 04:15, 1 March 2008 (EST)
- Beware of capitalizations (e.g. "Number of tracks"). Also note, "Genre" can have as many values as we want. "Page type" will not be necessary, there are only three types and the categories (Album, Artist, Song) do fine. As for "hometown", since you can have queries of queries, we'll just use [[Hometown::Hokkaido]] since "Hokkaido" will have the property [[Located in::Japan]]. Another thing, we'll be able to do more enforcement: "First letter" will only 'allow values's
- A possible problem I came across is how the searching is done. Referring to this type of search, I find that it is a bit clumsy and requires a bit of digging to figure out how to use it (and it requires it's own language of sorts). I don't really have a solution for this, but I though I would at least make my opinion known.:::- teknomunk (talk,E,歌,A) 04:11, 1 March 2008 (EST)
- That was what I was looking for, a list. So...
- Neat idea guys. I've been impressed w/the Semantic MediaWiki idea since I saw the founders present about it at WikiMania 2006. It didn't seem ready at the time, but Aquatiki makes it sound pretty sweet. I think it would be great and really powerful to have on the site. My main worry would be making the site inaccessible to everyday users (either through intimidating/complex wiki-text or through tough-to-use searching). Halo looks like it might solve the search problem as well as defeat the Flood (hardy har har), but I admittedly haven't gotten to read everything to the extent that I want [1][2][3].
- Thanks for the cool idea, I'll keep reading up and I'll check in on this convo
- -Sean Colombo (talk|contribs) 23:55, 1 March 2008 (EST)
- I guess I'm wondering how it'll be more complex than what we have now. If people really are clicking on the categories at the bottom of a page, it would be real easy to make a template that would produce a nice boiler plate with links to all the Semantic searches that the categories presently show. It could also consume all those "external links". Does any body have any thoughts on other common searches/browsings that we should replace? --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 02:43, 2 March 2008 (EST)
- The only way we could make a change of this magnitude at this point would be to change the templates we are already using here. But how would this eat up the "external links"?
- Another note: The halo thing linked to above looks good, but it appears to not support my browser (I seem to be using Konqueror more than Firefox recently, it seems to be more stable).
- - teknomunk (talk,E,歌,A) 03:03, 2 March 2008 (EST)
- I should've been more clear. What I meant was that would could use our existing "footer" templates (Template:AlbumFooter, Template:SongFooter, Template:Artist, etc.) to do all the Semantic linking. That way, all the external links would appear in the Factbox along with all the other links.
- Hopefully, we wouldn't need that much help from Halo, as we would be able to make the searches into simple links for people to follow. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 03:31, 2 March 2008 (EST)
- So service links could be used for things like amazon links:
[[ASIN::984ym2gnrwvr]]and have a[[provides service::Amazon Link]]on the ASIN property page. However, after looking into it a bit, this just puts the link in a little bubble next to the property and we probably will want the link to be a bit more prominent (and only a single external link instead of the possibility of several). Do you know of any way to do this off the top of your head? - Also, do you know if it is possible to specify a sort order for properties in the facts box at the bottom of the page? Or change the text "Facts about
Esperanza" for example to something like "Alum Information", "Song Information", etc.? - - teknomunk (talk,E,歌,A) 03:54, 2 March 2008 (EST)
- Everything you suggest is possible, but it can only be done server-side; I've done it all on my wiki. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 04:50, 2 March 2008 (EST)
- So service links could be used for things like amazon links:
- I guess I'm wondering how it'll be more complex than what we have now. If people really are clicking on the categories at the bottom of a page, it would be real easy to make a template that would produce a nice boiler plate with links to all the Semantic searches that the categories presently show. It could also consume all those "external links". Does any body have any thoughts on other common searches/browsings that we should replace? --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 02:43, 2 March 2008 (EST)
- Welllllll, we can define our own properties! What inspired this whole suggestion was browsing through Special:Categories and thinking about trying to clean it up. Just going in order, we could eliminate the first 6+5 categories with
- Alright, I found a problem. We currently use MediaWiki Version 1.7.1 on the server (and as a consequence, I use this on my local machine) and SemanticMediaWiki does not support this. One of the reasons we have kept this version is there have been changes made to the code for things like the Send to a friend link and such. I've been thinking that we would need to get these changes sorted out and if we are to use this here, now would be a good time.
- - teknomunk (talk,E,歌,A) 22:36, 2 March 2008 (EST)
Still on about Semantic Mediawiki
- (I figure I better start a new section as the old conversation is dated)
When and if we get around to updating to the latest version of MediaWiki, I can now say that I feel pretty confident that I can do anything with SMW and make it easy for n00bs, via templates. What's more, I think I can explain it to anyone who wants to know! For example, take artists' pages. An Infobox like this:
{{Infobox Artist
| name = Death Cab For Cutie
| hometown = United States, Washington, Bellingham
| officialSite = http://www.deathcabforcutie.com/
| wikipedia = Death Cab for Cutie
| currentMember = Ben Gibbard, Vocals, 1999,
| currentMember2 = Chris Walla, Guitar, 1999,
| formerMember = Nathan Good, Drums, 1999, 2000
| relatedArtist = All-Time Quarterback
| relatedArtist2 = The Postal Service
| label = Skrocki Records
| label2 = Atlantic Records
}}
is readable/writable to everyone, and even easier than normal wiki-markup. Albums would be automatically added with tracks listed in order and albums themselves listed chronologically, automatically. Songs without albums would automatically appear alphabetically in the "other songs" category. The Factbox at the bottom can be hidden, and all the current ways of linking to external sites can be maintained and automated. Semantic Forms is an option if we don't want to update our custom plugin, but I think spitting out an Infobox appropriate to the page type will work fine. (It's offline right now, but I'll make a full-fledged example on SMW Sandbox as soon as it's back) --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 08:27, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
OK, it's a bit of a quick hack, but http://sandbox.semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Death_Cab_For_Cutie show what I'm talkin' 'bout! Go on, hit edit on any of the DCfC pages: I dare you! ;-) --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 06:55, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
+ 
