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Contents 1 Hamill Claire:The Moon Is A Powerful Lover 2 Scorpions#Other_Songs 3 Your Gold Star... 4 Artist page sectioning, bot & API 5 Problem with some singles 6 Check this out 7 Albums which are still To Be Released 8 SOTD June 27, 2008 9 Formatting of compilations with ex-members or bands 10 Re: Special:Contributions/Gabolin 11 Esperanza Newsletter Updated for July 12 Oh! 13 Re: Your message on Hall & Oates 14 Seems like I haven't bothered you in a while so... 15 Please show me.. 16 Redirects 17 SOTD July 14, 2008 18 featuring... 19 So ... Are We Cool? 20 Why I do the things I do... 21 When you got a minute...

Hamill Claire:The Moon Is A Powerful Lover

You removed a space after the colon in "Hamill Claire:The Moon Is A Powerful Lover " Hamill_Claire:The_Moon_Is_A_Powerful_Lover, but why? In English, the grammatical rule is to leave a space after a colon, so I don't get your edit. Plse restore or explain? :)--BrianPT 22:12, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

There isn't a space after a colon in the pagename (the filing system that we use - details at LW:PN). A colon is used to separate the artist name (Hamill Claire) and the song title (The Moon Is A Powerful Lover), and shouldn't be treated as a normal bit of punctuation. Now, when it comes to colons that occur in album or song titles, then a space after the colon is appropriate, as in something like Rush:The Spirit Of Radio: Greatest Hits 1974-1987 (2003). Hope this helps clear things up! -    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:23, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

okay--BrianPT 22:31, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Scorpions#Other_Songs

All the songs (bar 1) in the extremely long Other Song list on Scorpions page need to be redirected to their equivalent title but with artist name of Scorpions (i.e. they need their prefix changing and more importantly to be recognised as being Scorpions and not THE Scorpions). If this was done I reckon most of these songs could actually be removed from the page, since most are allocated to albums under correct name of Scorpions. Since this is a "Herculean task", is there any way of doing this like there is with Batch Move?  _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 12:18, 8 June 2008 (EDT) P.S. And no I am not volunteering to do it manually :P

No. Although doing a preview of Batch Move will show you which titles need to be moved (they will show a red link), which makes things a little bit easier. (hmmm. batch redirect. that would be cool....tekno?)    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   14:10, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

UPDATE - done. And Bowie too (me and Senv did that page between us...he saw it on my "worklist..remember? hee hee). I also knocked a few off Georgie boy's. What's the problem with "Gone Troppo" ?? Just curious.  _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 17:31, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

When I was working on George Harrison, I only cleaned up/added albums up to the "Gone Troppo" album. Nothing was wrong with the song, that was just where I quit on the Artist page.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:30, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

AAh..Ok. Thank you. Noted.  _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 15:42, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Your Gold Star...

		The Minor Barnstar
		Keifer, I hereby award you this barnstar for being a clever !@?$  ♫Яєdxx ♪♫♪♫♪Talk 17:17, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

*The room jumps to their feet..round of applause..."For he's a jolly good fellow, for he's a jolly good fellow...."*
P.S. Note the minor....Okay so maybe I'm feeling a bit mean now, so here's a bonus point

Barnstars? I haven't seen them around for a long time! Maybe Redxx should get a barnstar for resurrecting them.

King_Nee1114 (talk page • contributions • deletions) 02:52, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Leave it to Redxx to resurrect the dead and make it fun again. I was thinking that we should do something similar - for real, this time - to barnstars, but a little more "LyricWiki" and a little less "Wikipedia"-like. Gold stars to Gold Records or some such. I was also thinking that it would be nice if it was a thing passed from user to user. One person earns a "Gold Record" and then finds someone else doing good editing and then passes it on. In my own mind, I think this should be a template, with the talk page listing the order that the "award" was given/handed down. More than one of a "type" can be working its way around, with the templates being "GoldRecord1", "GoldRecord2", "PlatinumRecord1", etc. (Not so many that things get overwhelming, since only a few dozen are logged in users each day.) I think that would be a perfect things for Redxx to start! (Yeah, I'm volunteering you! You resurrected the barnstar, after all!) If I had one, I'd give it to Kingnee for adding the explanation to the Artist template!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   23:30, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Did you check that Queen Wiki site out btw? (i.e. your bonus point) _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 22:19, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

See, I give you an idea, and you run with it. Not just a little, but a whole !@#$!! marathon. You rock hard! (I guess I'm supposed to pass it on now, eh? I guess "tag-backs" wouldn't be fair, so I'll have to try to be on a bit more in the next couple of days to find someone. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*)

Until you mentioned it, I didn't notice the little website box beside the star! A Spanish Queen wiki? That's a bit...unusual. They certainly appear to be pretty thorough with regards to artwork, don't they?!? Wooooo! Super Stone Cold Crazy!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:41, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

Artist page sectioning, bot & API

Hi, Kiefer,

I think you should take a look at this note. If I'm right, artist page sectioning has some side effects, leading to bot and API misinterpretation of such pages. Regards,--Senvaikis ^(talk) 11:54, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

This is likely something that needs to be brought up with Sean, as he does the work with site/project integration. Sorry, but on this subject, I'm not much help. (I'm the organization/formatting/uniformity guy!  :-] )    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   21:03, 21 June 2008 (EDT)

Problem with some singles

Well, as you helped me some weeks ago ordering all those Keane singles, I'll ask for your help with a couple of them that made a bit of trouble for me. They're Atlantic, and Try Again. It's better explained on my User Talk

Hope you can help me soon, I'd really like to finish that Keane works :P

Greets!

Arturo.

Check this out

I know you do a lot of formattery, so I thought you might find interest in what I whipped up tonight: {{SUBST:SF2}}. It just makes things a little quicker, reducing 'SongFooter|artist=artistname|song=songname|fLetter=symbol|iTunes= ~ ~ ~ ~' to 'SUBST:SF2|artistname|songname|fLetter', and then when you save, makes it a normal footer template like you'd find on any other song page. However: it is less goof proof than good old 'songfooter' because it requires three arguments.
Right now, it's not much use to do anything, but I might make it more tricked out (who knows it might go from 'songfooter2' to 'songformatter')
King_Nee1114 (talk page • contributions • deletions) 04:52, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

PS, this really isn't a 'general public' kind of thing yet, so anyone who happens to read this: know what you are doing first!

Albums which are still To Be Released

Do we have a template for marking this? Or should it even be mentioned? Example: Staind's “Illusion Of Progress” is scheduled to come out in August. KaBoOM 444 20:48, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

No template as far as I know. I normally just use a bulleted note below the Album's link on the Artist's page like:

• Album is due to be released on July 1, 2008.

Then I also put a similar note below the Album template on the Album's page. Then whenever it is released, someone usually comes around and deletes the note or changes it to "Album was released on July 1, 2008."    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   19:37, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Thanks, bud. I was going to do that, but, I just wanted to make sure. KaBoOM 444 19:54, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

SOTD June 27, 2008

Hi Kiefer! I'm just here to tell you that your nomination of Bruce Hornsby:Cartoons & Candy has won Song of the Day for June 27, 2008!
Thanks for nominating a song and for contributing to LyricWiki!
-ÜberBot 02:59, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Formatting of compilations with ex-members or bands

Hi, Kiefer,

would you mind to take a look here? I need your help; tia, --Senvaikis ^(talk) 06:50, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

Re: Special:Contributions/Gabolin

Discussion moved to User talk:Attendant

Esperanza Newsletter Updated for July

Oh!

I'm new here, Thanks a lot. (: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Saleemz (talk • contribs) .

No problem! Some sites separate multi-disk sets that way, LyricWiki doesn't. (If it all comes together in one package, it's a single entry.) Happy editing!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   17:08, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

Re: Your message on Hall & Oates

Hi, thanks for the heads-up about LW:PN. However, I have noticed that the "Hall And Oates" section, as opposed to the "Hall & Oates" section, contains much less information. Perhaps there is a way to change "Hall & Oates" to "Hall And Oates" as per LW:PN? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HerrCommissar (talk • contribs) .

Thanks.

In my opinion the best course of action would be to #Redirect all of the "Hall And Oates" songs to their corresponding "Hall & Oates" pages. An admin can do that with a special utility, so I can do that later, when I have some time. Does that help?

King_Nee1114 (talk page • contributions • deletions) 09:27, 7 July 2008 (EDT)

Created a #Redirect on the "Hall And Oates" page to "Hall & Oates" as per the "commonly misspelled band names" section on LW:PN, thanks for your time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HerrCommissar (talk • contribs) .

Seems like I haven't bothered you in a while so...

K, well you know how I like getting things right, right? Well it's like this. Caps...in the second pipe. Caps in song names and in album names. What IS the correct way of approaching this? Yes, fine and dandy for weird titles where the capitalisation is somewhat obvious, but I'm talking more of your bog standard, nothing out of the ordinary, everyday kind of titles.

The reason I ask is because I don't want to spend my time viewing words in lower case within titles as "errors" and correcting the same, if they aren't actually "errors", do I now? Because of course that would simply be wasting time I could be using to do something more productive. And if these words aren't to be capitalised, are we expected just to assume in every case we come across that the titles appearing on the page have been formatted exactly as the artist intended, i.e. as per the album cover?

Seems to me that unless there is already a procedure in place that I have overlooked, there definitely needs to be, because I'm sure I'm not the only one who's a bit exasperated by this. Nor do I imagine for one minute that I'm the only one who corrects these "errors" when they come across them...to the obvious annoyance of the editor who kindly created the entry...

A possible solution of course would be to adopt the same capitalisation rules for the second pipe as Musibrainz. This could also prove helpful with the external links of course. The only problem there is that our help page would have to be far simpler to understand than Musicbrainz, because there sure is a hell of a lot to learn about which words are correct to capitalise (believe me I tried deciphering it all one day and gave up >> Musicbrainz - Capitalization Standard for English).

I know, I know, it's always been a touchy subject...Sorry I'm having a bit of a bad day..I don't mean to sound off..love you really x  _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 06:34, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Please show me..

how to deal correctly with this song page...David Bowie:Peace On Earth - Little Drummer Boy i.e. it's very much a collaboration with the old crooner himself aka Mr Crosby. I remember we had similar discussion a while back but can't recall how it should be resolved...
Need for a collaborative template perhaps KingNee..? _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 18:58, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Do you know the origin of the song?    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   19:25, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Rfl..and THAT'S your final answer??? Yes..I know a bit. I think Bowie was just out of rehab trying to get off drugs and stuff and it was on Bing's Christmas Show (I've seen the performance many times). I also know Bing died shortly afterwards...Sure has a strange effect on me too, whenever I watch it...lol..yes, very weird indeed... _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 23:04, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

Hey, give me a break, the answer is all in the context of the song's origin!  :-] *sigh* In this case, I feel that both artists should be used in the pagename. The page should be under David Bowie And Bing Crosby:Peace On Earth - Little Drummer Boy (or should it be David Bowie And Bing Crosby:Peace On Earth/Little Drummer Boy?). If it was on an album that was released by David Bowie, I would likely put it under just David Bowie:Peace On Earth - Little Drummer Boy, with Bing as a featured artist, much like Queen's Under Pressure (which, surprise, surprise, features Bowie). Whoever's album it was on first gets the credit. On occasion, I figure there would be exceptions. If a song was released as a single before being placed on an album and the single listed both artists (some 80s duets did this, I think) then the song should stay listed as by both artists, and the album listing should reflect this.

At any rate, it's a big fat if>then type of deal with stuff like this. Basically, if you feel that it is a true collaboration, and not one artist inviting another artist to appear on their upcoming album, then the song should have both artists in the pagename. If it's a "hey, I can find a little somethin' for you to do on my next album if you wanna come over to the studio and play for a day" kind of a thing, then play it as a featured artist. That's my take, anyhow. And a late night, tired-eyes one at that...I was going to bed and decided to see if you replied, and lo and behold you did! So apologies if it rambles and doesn't make sense. I'm goin' beddy-bye now. snooooore.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   00:01, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

Hee Hee Well I totally misunderstood that didn't I? I thought you was doing your bit for Esperanza, the destressing thingy, like trying to distract me in view of my earlier moan...rfl...I thought you meant the origin of the actual collaboration, their recording it together..haa haa. Ok, I'm composed again now (almost).

I ask you these type of questions because I think we often view these things in much the same way. So yes I asked you about this because Bowie was not a featured artist, nor was Bing. This was an equal collaboration. It was released as a single with both artist's being given equal status.

So are you saying create a seperate artist page just for this one song? Because obviously the song template won't be operable otherwise. Ergo the problem. (Incidentally I am having discussion along similar lines over on the Song Template talk page). _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 03:28, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

Redirects

I redirected everything from Manhattan Transfer to The Manhattan Transfer Janitor failed to add the redirected songs to the OS section in TMT, or MT. Did I do something wrong? Another related item: When a lyric page is redirected, the redirect is not indicated in the history? TIA EchoSierra 01:45, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

SOTD July 14, 2008

Hi Kiefer! I'm just here to tell you that your nomination of Barenaked Ladies:Light Up My Room has won Song of the Day for July 14, 2008!
Thanks for nominating a song and for contributing to LyricWiki!
-ÜberBot 02:56, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

featuring...

I just want to be sure about something. Featured artists. MusicBrainz often list featured artists as being an actual part of the song name. As such we often get songs with this included in link. Am I right not to include featured artists in page name? What if there are 2 versions, one with and one without?  _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 15:40, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Featured artists really shouldn't be included in a pagename. The reason basically is that the actual title of the song doesn't include the featured artist, because basically that means that the song can never be done unless that artist is the featured artist. Doesn't make sense. It would be weird if say Coldplay covered Queen's "Under Pressure" and they had to title it "Under Pressure (feat. David Bowie)" and David Bowie didn't actually sing. That's just mad...MAD, I tell you! If there are two versions, one with a featured artist, and one without, then the parenthetical add-on can have the featured artist, of course, to differentiate between the two. Of course, I know that you knew all of this, and just needed confirmation. No problem. I needed an easy question after the crazy week I had instructing over fifty 12-15 year old boys this week! Cheers!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   18:44, 18 July 2008 (EDT)

Thank you :-) and for...well you know. Are you looking forward to a long summer break now? 50 x 12 year old boys? That sounds impossible (lol) At least my 12 year old charge (of which there is only the one, as in singular...hee hee) is a girl....On second thoughts... _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 01:07, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

Impossible is about right. It was fun most of the time, but focus is not exactly something boys that age have. I've taught girls, too, and it's a different challenge there. Less chaotic, though! But I should have a bit of a break now, so that I can be around a bit more. After being basically away for the past 5-6 weeks, I just feel like I'm playing catch-up with all that's going on.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:36, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

So ... Are We Cool?

Sooooo.... are we done talking about what was on my talk page? You didn't reply to my last statement, so I just wanted to make sure we're concluded. Are we agreeing to disagree or just not talking? --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 00:40, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

We're okay. I'm done...I basically have nothing to add right now. I guess I'll chime in when there's a proposal for Sean to mull over. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what changes you're really looking for. The term "meta-administration" reeks of jargon and goes over my head, I'm afraid!  :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:33, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

Okay. I'll try again sometime in the future, but I'll give it a rest for the time being. Thanks. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 22:37, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

You don't have to give it a rest, really. If you want to make a proposal, then feel free to do so. Just because I wasn't thrilled with the word choice doesn't mean that I'm going to hold anything against you. I know that you want the best for the site. And a good idea is a good idea. Just make sure you present it plainly and clearly for us non-techies! :-]    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   22:48, 23 July 2008 (EDT)

OK. I'll ruminate and come up with a clear expression of what I'm thinking for the Community Portal. Thanks for staying positive. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 01:02, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

Why I do the things I do...

I just wanted to explain two things to you about the way I work (so you'll understand) and also to ask for your opinion on the same:

1. I can't recall how the subject came up, but I recently had a discussion with our friend Senv in which you were referred to, and after reading your exchange of posts I decided to adopt the "If we can't provide the correct version of lyrics insert a link to a pre-existing page" kind of attitude. (Well I concluded, on balance, that this was probably more helpful than presenting a totally blank page.) However, since the reason I hadn't done this before is because I do not wish to mislead, I add the parenthetical description totally outside of the link and I format it in ordinary typeface. I do this so the information about it being a different version is there, but not overly emphasised. If I subsequently manage to obtain the correct version, then of course I change it and boldly go where no man has gone before.. Sorry, I just got overcome with Cap'n Kirk there for a minute.
2. Many songs remain in OS lists, not because they haven't been/aren't able to be verified (although if editors don't bother to add the release to the song's page...), but simply because editors haven't got anywhere more appropriate to put them. With Janitor's contributions added to this, OS would seem to have become something of a general dumping ground. That's fine as far as it goes. Useful in fact...as a kicking off point. But it does seem wrong to me for this dumping ground to be considered the end point for verified songs. I'm sure that these songs being left in the OS list also puts many editors off dealing with lengthy OS lists on artists' pages. You will have noticed that I usually create separate categories based on the results I obtain after I have researched an OS list (e.g. Songs from Soundtracks, Unreleased, Compilations, Singles, Collaborations, etc.). By doing this I am hoping that other editors will understand that the songs remaining in the OS list are the ones that still need to be verified. I am obviously not the only one who does this of course, but personally I would like to see something like this become procedure, with maybe a section allowing for this incorporated into the template of the artists page, since I believe it would assist us all. What do you reckon?  _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 13:07, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

So now you're going to try to explain the things you do?  :-]

I don't believe I've ever separated attributed songs under their own header, instead leaving them under the Other Songs section with a note of explanation as to the song's origin, but I have seen such headers and like them. So, I'm good with it.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   00:15, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

When you got a minute...

Could you please help this user out >> LyricWiki_talk:Community_Portal#Same_title.2C_different_lyrics, only I don't know what to suggest. Thank you :-)  _♫Яєd_{xx ♪}♫♪_♫♪^Talk 21:13, 25 July 2008 (EDT)