User talk:Teknomunk/Archive/2007 January 3 - 2007 February 22

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[edit] Thanks / The Brothers Four

Actually, thanks and sorry. I always feel a bit guilty when I see you deleting all that stuff I sent to the deletion page and filling up the Recent Changes page in red. I know it has to be done, but still...my apologies. --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 01:19, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Not a problem. The great thing about wiki's is that you only do things you want to :P Granted, I would much rather be working on Category:Requests For Romanization/Japanese or Category:Requests For Translation/Japanese, but as I only do a few deletions a day, so it is not too much of a bore. Now, if I can only find what is breaking the layout on my talk page...

- - teknomunk (talk,E) 01:29, 3 January 2007 (EST)

It was the <small> tags at the bottom of the page. He used <small /> instead of </small>. There, only 999 things left to repay you for! --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 02:07, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Thanks, finding those things are very difficult. This is not the first time this has happened; it usually involves a <div>. Well, MediaWiki 1.9, and maybe MediaWiki 1.8, automatically close all tags that are left open like that, so it is impossible to break the page layout. We still have 1.7 on our server. I won't bother Sean right now with this, he is rather busy with a for-profit project and does not have much time for the next couple weeks.

- - teknomunk (talk,E) 02:12, 3 January 2007 (EST)

PS: What do you suggest we do with the double albums for The Brothers Four. They are valid albums, but they're basically just reissues of the regular albums, just paired up. They would totally clog the already clogged-up The Brothers Four page. They have those for most of the major Folk artists of the 60s (The Kingston Trio, The Limeliters, etc.). Should they be made into a disambiguation page to the two albums do you think?--Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 02:17, 3 January 2007 (EST)

I think that we should keep the albums. The problem with The Brothers Four page is the same problem that any artist that has released many albums has, the page gets very long. Adding a link between the compilation and original albums sounds like a good idea. The only other thing I thought of was to either shorten or remove the Table Of Contents. Anything else, like splitting the artist page into several shorter pages, should be discussed on the Community Portal so that everyone can comment on it.

- - teknomunk (talk,E) 02:24, 3 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Message for Janitor copied from R2-D2's talk page (Category:Artists)

Hi R2-D2.
I was wondering if you could maybe check out the articles in Category:Artists sometime, and add the fLetter parameter (or if Template:Artist is not used, [[Category:Artists fLetter]]) to their pages so all artists are in the right subcategory and we can make fLetter required as with Template:SongFooter.
--Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 05:07, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Hi, I think Teknomunk's Janitor was doing this, so i'll copy your request in his userpage. --Unaiaia (talk) 06:40, 3 January 2007 (EST)

I had janitor go over each of the letter categories individually, but not over the entire Artist category. I will see about starting that later today.

- - teknomunk (talk,E) 12:18, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Another one for you: Category:Albums. Have fun :) --Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 07:17, 6 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Relocation of "Dir En Grey"

In response to your comment, I am working on the pages for each of the songs, and as the bands name is written in most standard wiki sites as "Dir en grey", the relocation was based on common precedents. I was planning on the links, as well as cleaning some of the lyrics pages and adding details that have been previously left out. When all of the lyric pages are complete, I would suggest that the page be moved to the properly labeled page. Thanks for your concern. --Notjake13 23:38, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Replied on User talk:Notjake13

[edit] Re: Delete

Sure sorry, I know I always forget that... bad, bad, bad...--Unaiaia (talk) 18:43, 6 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Template protection

Just picking an admin at random here, but shouldn't Template:AlbumFooter be protected? Remiss 08:07, 10 January 2007 (EST)

And by the way the "Edit" error should be corrected, just like SongFooter :D --Unaiaia (talk) 08:23, 10 January 2007 (EST)

This has been fixed.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 17:53, 13 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Re: User talk:Mischko/index.php?title=User talk:Mischko/Sandbox

Has protecting this page been attempted? I'm not sure what all is involved in protecting a page, so I thought I'd ask about it. Or are we relatively comfortable with whoever it is spamming the same page as opposed to spreading it around the site? Thanks, --Kiefer 12:00, 13 January 2007 (EST)

I already tried protecting another page that this was happening to, but the spammer just used another page. The spammer also keeps changing IPs, so the only way we can keep this from happening is to get some sort of spam filtering. He would have been banned a long time ago if he could be.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 15:20, 13 January 2007 (EST)

As I thought. --Kiefer 16:06, 13 January 2007 (EST)

We can just keep on blocking the IP's though. It will make it harder for him to spam the site because he has to switch proxy's all the time, we get some kind of blacklist for anonymous proxy servers and hopefully we won't scare away serious users but encourage them to sign up when they see spamming is taken seriously. --Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 16:48, 13 January 2007 (EST)

Blocking the IPs won't do anything, the IP changes every single time he does an edit. See the bottom of Special:Undelete/User_talk:Mischko/index.php?title=User_talk:Mischko/Sandbox. Not a single IP is the same. I did some looking around and these IPs are even from different countries: France, Brazil, Japan, Portugal, Canada, and others. I want him gone for good. IP banning is unfortunatly not going to help in this case. But you are of course welcome to do this.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 17:51, 13 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Amarok Script

Hi, I'm the developer of the Amarok script and I've spotted some bugs that I have already corrected (sorry about them). I'll be releasing a fix as son as someone tells me how to handle this: I'm using the Song template and I don't know what to do when one of the album or year is known but not the other. Should I just omit the first parameter altogether or should I put the information I have (leaving a malformed album link)? --Attendant 22:28, 15 January 2007 (EST)

If the album is not known, leave the album parameter completely empty: {{Song||Artist}} If the year is missing, use ???? instead of the year.

By the way, is the script you maintain the available from the Get More Scripts menu->Amarok LyricWiki.org Lyrics 1.2? If you want me to help with the code, I am a competent programmer and more than happy to help. I use my own script for retrieving lyrics because that one (1.2) does not support songs that have more than one lyric section, or expanding templates inside the lyrics, specifically {{Ruby}}, both of which are used in Japanese songs.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 23:05, 15 January 2007 (EST)

I found which script it is, and I can't seem to get it working correctly. Oh well, I will probably just keep using my own.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 23:38, 15 January 2007 (EST)

Thanks for your prompt reply. To be clear the script is Wiki-Lyrics and besides being able to retrieve lyrics from many sites, it can be used to submit content (song pages, album pages, and album covers) to both LyricWiki and Lyriki. If you're having troubles running it I'd like to hear about them.

About the multiple lyric sections, if you mean lyrics with more than 1 "lyric" tag then my script doesn't handled that either (we don't have that at Lyriki ATM), but I'm interested in knowing what do you use them for and how does your script handle those cases (can you point me to one of such pages?). I had thought about adding a lang attribute to our lyrics tag on Lyriki to indicate the language (and allow the user to select the preferred language when multiple versions are found) but I haven't gotten to it yet. Is that what you use them for? BTW, my script can't handle ruby tags either since I hadn't heard of them until now. I'll try to find out what they are and what can be done about them.

PS: I'll upload the fix ASAP. --Attendant 01:38, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Well an example can be found at 川田まみ (Mami Kawada):Radiance and 川田まみ (Mami Kawada):緋色の空. Both have multiple sections, the first has three, the second has two. The second one also has ruby tags. The ruby template adds ruby related tags to the lyrics, so that a reading can be provided for kanji -> <ruby><rb>{{{1}}}</rb><rp>(</rp><rt>{{{2}}}</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>. If the browser supports ruby tags, it renders this as ruby tags, if not, it renders it like this: 緋色(ひしょく). Unfortunatly, the only browser I know that supports this nativly is IE; an extension is avaiable for Firefox to give it this functionality. however, which is what I use. It is a Japanese thing, so I am not suprised that you have not run across it.

As to my script, it uses screen scraping, so I just let the wiki handle rendering the text. I then scan the html output for the various sections. For instance, the code I use for finding the lyrics sections is this:

# scan for lyric sections
res = 
	page.scan(/(<h2>[^<>]*?<\/h2>)<div id="lyric">(.*?)<\/div>/ ) |
	page.scan(/(<h2>[^<>]*?<\/h2>)\\n<div id="lyric">(.*?)<\/div>/ ) |
	page.scan(/()<div id="lyric">(.*?)<\/div>/ ) |
	page.scan(/(<pre>)(.*?)<\/pre>/)

This is obviously lyricwiki specific and takes advantage of the fact that the lyrics panel in Amarok renders HTML correctly, so it just keeps the html around. I think I have some filtering to exclude sections, but I am not sure that code is really working at all. I just include all the lyric sections one after another.

If you wouldn't mind, could you add your script to the list at LyricWiki:Plugins, along with contact information (even if it is just you userpage here or at Lyriki) so that we can contact you about problems with your script and when/if formatting changes so that we don't break your script.

I haven't really tried that hard to get your script working, as I have my own. If I feel like it sometime, I will try to figure out what is going on and let you know.

I hope I answered all you questions. If there is anything else, feel free to ask.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 08:13, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Thanks again, I've added the Wiki-Lyrics to the plugin page. About the ruby tags, though I don't fetch pages as in html but in raw mode (what you see when you're editing them), I can easily translate the ruby template, so ruby tags shouldn't be a problem. The multiple lyric tags will have to wait until I decide how to handle them (show them all one after another, or give the user some sort of choice).

I forgot to ask about something. At Lyriki we add pages auto-generated by the Wiki-Lyrics plugin to an auto-generated category. This category is only used when the lyrics are submitted without any user intervention (the user can also choose to review submissions, in which case, the page is not added to that category). That allows users to review those contents latter and even allows the Wiki-Lyrics plugin to prompt for review of those lyrics (if the user chooses the "review auto-generated pages" options). Will it be OK if I add auto-generated pages to a category like that? --Attendant 15:02, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Go ahead. The category that is used here is Category:Review Me for pages that need to be reviewed by a human. I haven't been over at Lyriki very much, mostly to see how far that site has come, but I remember seeing that template there.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 15:13, 16 January 2007 (EST)

All done and uploaded now. Ruby tags and also multiple lyrics (since it turned up to be easier than I though) are supposedly working now (I've only tested the pages that you pointed me to). I've also fixed and issue with encoding that could be the reason it didn't worked for you before. --Attendant 21:17, 16 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Re:Album Inclusion Templates

Thanks for the note. I started the work in my "sandbox space" and suddenly had to go out the door. I'll see what I can do; I'm not really sure what to do if I can't divide up <noinclude>s within other such tags. This will probably be a sandbox idea that stays a sandbox idea. – ipso 13:31, 16 January 2007 (EST)

I'm not really sure if what you're doing at the top is similar to what I'm doing, although it looks like a good idea. My sandbox template is pretty much finished now, if you want to have a look: User:Ipso/Sandbox/Albuminclude-top (it's badly named now, since it's not just a "top of the page" template anymore) You can see an example of what I was going for at Milemarker (source). If my template doesn't turn out to be an awful idea, maybe the two of ours could be combined somehow. – ipso 15:33, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Have a look at a page that uses the templates I have worked on, Utada Hikaru. How my way works:

It uses the Template:IncludeAlbum to pass a parameter include=true to the album page. The album page then passes {{{include}}} as a parameter thru to Template:AlbumPage. The album page template then compares the value of include to true. The album page template then hides the footer and creates section title for the album. It is very complicated, but it works. The main problem with it is that you have to know to use {{AlbumPage|include={{{include}}} }} in order for it to work properly.

It still needs a lot of work. If/when I start work on it again, I will move the section title code into {{Template:IncludeAlbum}} to try and reduce the number of places where a mistake could break it. I would also go back and remove all of the track##=name type parameters; the code for that is not maintainable and if it remains will cause a lot of problems. Also the code that would remain would need to be cleaned up so it is not such a mess.

The other consideration for this is that transcluding album pages increases the server load and load time.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 16:12, 16 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Letter 'Cs'

Hi,

The other day you corrected the fLetter paramter in the Hiperkarma:Csak az kiabál, aki fél‎ page from Cs to C.

While I understand, that you thought it was a problem, I'd like to point out, that the title really begins with letter 'Cs', which is a letter in Hungarian (there are other two-character letters, like Dz, Gy, Ly, Ny, Sz, Ty, Zs; and even a three-character one: Dzs).

Should we categorize them by first character. While that would probably make sense, it would not be a true statement, that this song starts with letter 'C', and it would be erroneously organized.

What are your thought on this?

--Szajd 13:53, 20 January 2007 (EST)

I wasn't aware that it was that way in Hungarian. I was just going through Special:Categories and cleaning things up a little and I saw that it was in Category:Songs_Cs all by itself, so I changed it to Category:Songs_C.

I haven't really put any thought into it at all, and I don't really see a good way to handle this. If you are going to reclassify the song with fLetter=Cs, you should at least make Cs a sub-category of C. If it becomes a problem, it will get fixed later.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 14:29, 20 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Template:H1

Hi, can't this be just <h2>{{{1}}}</h2>? This way it would display just like the other ==Titles== in the wiki. Maybe there's the parser problem.... but i think it's better to have the Artist, Song... templates with h2 that with a "hand made" title, even if we have to change not to use the template H1 --Unaiaia (talk) 18:57, 20 January 2007 (EST)

Currently the only place that this template is used is on the FAQ for the question. I think that the main reasong this was used was to prevent the software from adding section edit links. I would not object to this being replaced with a <h3> or less, which do not have lines under the heading. There is probably a better way to handle it though...

- teknomunk (talk,E) 20:35, 20 January 2007 (EST)

Oh... I though it was used in the Artist, AlbumFooter and SongFooter templates. It is there where i thin h2 should be used. --Unaiaia (talk) 20:45, 20 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] RSS feed

Hi, I have a question about the rss feeds like the iTunes or Last.fm things. I've added a new one to my userpage, but it doesn't update so often, i tried purging the page and it didn't work. Sometimes it updates when I edit my Userpage, sometimes by itself. I'd like to know how it works if you know it. Thanks in advance. --Unaiaia (please, reply here) 10:31, 23 January 2007 (EST)

It is set to update no more often than once every two hours. This is really just arbitrary though and can be changed in the code for the extension.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 14:30, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Ok, that was just what i wanted to know, so Purging works, but only once every two hours, ok, good to know :D thanks again--Unaiaia (please, reply here) 14:51, 23 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] AotW

I notice you usually do Album of the Week, so I thought I'd tell you that a new one is needed. If you don't have time, I can probably get to it though. Just thought I'd let you know. --WillMak050389 15:13, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Thanks, I think I forgot. If you see this again, you are more than welcome to change it if you feel like it. I really should write a script to do this, I keep forgetting to change it.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 15:22, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Duly noted, hope you have a great day! --WillMak050389 15:24, 23 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Rosana Arbelo:Follarte

Hi... well, this singer usually sings about love, happiness, this kind of things. I'll translae you a part of this "song":

I guess you know why I think this is a fake song :D --Unaiaia (please, reply here) 05:21, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Okay, I see what you mean. It is out of character for the artist.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 08:18, 24 January 2007 (EST)

Yes, it seems somebody send it for fun to a site, and it went through, then UberBot just took it, i guess :D --Unaiaia (please, reply here) 08:27, 24 January 2007 (EST)

[edit] Re: Hello

Hello to you too and thanks for the suggestions!

• I had noticed that you were cleaning up my contributions and was thinking to contact you too to ask for advice to lessen your workload, but you were faster. ;) But I still have one question. Where do I place the translation of the title of a song? If I place it on top of the lyrics their layout gets messed up. Should I place it in the header like this? "==English translation - English title=="
• I had thought about learning Japanese from time to time last year but never let follow any action. Who knows, if I have too much spare time this year I might finally try it, but it is really hard to learn a language that has so little in common with the languages I already speak and where you don't have anyone to speak to in it.

I will certainly continue to submit lyrics for Japanese anime songs I listen to, but there aren't that many since most of what I like is intrumental.

Bye, Val.

Well, I haven't really put the translated title anywhere on the song page. So far I have only been putting the translation in the link from the artist/album pages. A possible location would be to put is under the header, and format it similar to Template:Cover. If you can think of anywhere else that it can go, I am open to suggestions.

Learning any foreign language will take a long time; I expect that I will have to continue learning for at least four more years to have an 'advanced' knowledge of Japanese and several more before I have a native or better level knowledge. It is hard to learn Japanese, but I find that its grammar is much more consistant than English is. For example, I think that there are only 2-3 irregular verbs in the entire language.

I am just happy that there are people starting to work on the Japanese songs here. Other than a handful of edits and the initial bot scraping, I have done almost all the work on Japanese songs. So it is nive to have someone else.

I will probably continue to clean up anything Japanese that comes across the recent edits.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 17:04, 1 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] SOTD February 03, 2007

Hi teknomunk! I'm just here to tell you that your nomination of 川田まみ (Mami Kawada):Radiance has won Song of the Day for February 03, 2007!
Thanks for nominating a song and for contributing to LyricWiki!
-ÜberBot 02:59, 3 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] Re:Out of town

Hi, i'll send you a copy of the bot i'm running this weekend. I had to change some lines in the category function because it only did the first page of each category... didn't you have that problem? Also, since i was having many timeouts when i started i added a parameter to the category function so I can choose where to start in a given category. --Unaiaia (please, reply here) 06:37, 8 February 2007 (EST)

I think I remember something about the category not working correctly, but never did anything about it. Thanks for the fix. When I get time, I will incorperate it into my codebase.

I've been thinking about posting the code on the internet, probably at sourceforge, once the code gets a little more mature. As far as I can tell, there is not an existing ruby framework for mediawiki bots. Anyways, when you get back, I will send you a copy of the most recent codebase I have and a ported songformat.rb.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 11:15, 8 February 2007 (EST)

[edit] SOTD February 13, 2007

Hi teknomunk! I'm just here to tell you that your nomination of Utada Hikaru:First Love has won Song of the Day for February 13, 2007!
Thanks for nominating a song and for contributing to LyricWiki!
-ÜberBot 02:57, 13 February 2007 (EST)